1080i50 footage as B roll for RED Camera 1080p24 - 2-Pop Forums

scottcclements · 03-14-2010, 08:29 AM

Hi, there.

I was shooting B roll footage on the Canon HV30 in 1080i50 25(fps) for a project primarily shot on the RED Camera at 1080p24 2K. Now that I've done more research, I realize that I should have shot in the camera's 25p mode. I was a little weary of shooting in that mode, thinking it might be a gimmicky feature that might degrade image quality.

However, now I'm stuck needing to convert this interlaced 25fps HDV footage into a format that will integrate with the rest of the footage. The editor is going to use Red Raw for the majority of the online, and is offlining in 1080p/24 Avid DNxHD 36 8-bit. How do I give him the best online and offline footage to use in the project?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

NoahKadner · 03-14-2010, 11:50 AM

Check if they want it to look 24p or if they like the 50i look. To be honest it would be hard to find a format less compatible with RED footage if you tried...

Noah

scottcclements · 03-14-2010, 11:56 AM

They want the 24p look. Can you explain why you think that HDV is the most difficult format to match with the Red? It's not ideal, of course, but there has to be a way of making it work.

NoahKadner · 03-14-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottcclements

Can you explain why you think that HDV is the most difficult format to match with the Red?

Maybe not the *most* difficult to match but definitely a big challenge due to its comparitively reduced color space, much higher image compression, different frame size, etc. I'm kinda surprised they would want a camera of such a different quality to be the b-roll- no offense. I mean if it's supposed to look night and day different- like someone's POV that's one thing. But if it's supposed to match closely- well they've got their work cut out for them.

I'd suggest you first find out what their finishing format is. First you'd want to conform to 24p and then export to a stable i.e. not HDV codec- such as ProRes or DnxHD. You can do this in Compressor- a lot of rendering with the frame controls on.

But it's not quite as simple as just one size fits all. Because RED doens't even really shoot at HD resolution. If they're using the RAW footage they're probably working from 4K not HD. In short- you need more info about their deliverables.

Noah

scottcclements · 03-14-2010, 01:24 PM

This is a low budget project, which started off on Red, but needs to move on to capturing B-roll on an HV30 HDV camera, purely for financial reasons. The footage doesn't need to match exactly, because the HDV shots are wide establishing shots. The footage can have a different look from the Red footage, which focuses on the actors. They've shot the drama in Red 2k 24p - 2048 x1152.

I'm an FCP editor, who's just helping out with some B-roll photography. The editor is cutting on an old Avid laptop system. He wants to offline in Avid 1080p/24 DNxHD 36 8-bit codec. The online will be done primarily with Red Raw in a proper online smoke session.

I've been playing around with compressor. trying to figure out a good way of delivering a more stable format than HDV for the online session. My original idea was to convert the HDV to apple pro res (HQ) 24fps progressive (for the online), then export to Avid 1080p/24 DNxHD 36 8-bit for the editor to do his offline. I'm also thinking of upscaling the HDV in compressor to Red frame size of 2048x1152 in Uncompressed 10 bit for the online. Is there another option - perhaps one better suited to the Avid?

NoahKadner · 03-15-2010, 09:37 AM

I'd just give them 1080/50i ProRes HQ and let them take it from there. It's going to need to be Avid-ized a bit and it's much better that they get a clean source from you. I would highly recommend against upconverting to 2K- that will only make it look worse. And chances are the final project will be mastered in 1080p anyway because it cannot live at 2K unless it's going out to film- unlikely in a low-no budget situation.

Noah

scottcclements · 03-15-2010, 09:45 AM

Thanks for the advice. You don't think I should at least convert to 1080/24p ProRes HQ? At least that way the editor would have 24 fps footage to work with, to cut into the rest of the piece which is also 24 fps. I definitely think you're right about not upconverting to 2K. I don't think they're ever going to a film print.

NoahKadner · 03-15-2010, 12:38 PM

You could but then you have a whole other issue getting a decent interlaced to progressive conversion. Done wrong that looks horrible and I'd suspect that there's something on the Avid side that would look better. I'd ask- if they don't know what you're talking about go ahead. I'd at least recommend springing for this plugin- it will make a much nicer looking conversion than FCP alone:

http://www.nattress.com/Products/sta...conversion.htm

Noah

scottcclements · 03-15-2010, 01:35 PM

Thanks for your help. Regarding the nattress plugin, I do believe that in an interview Graeme Nattress stated that compressor now handles these types of conversions just as well as his plugin. In other words, I think compressor has caught up to him. Not sure if he was talking about deinterlacing as well, but definitely his plugin's ntsc/pal conversions.